Treating a Mystery: A Disease Named Pandas May Be Causing Frightening Changes in Children

Parents say their kids have something called Pandas, and it's not cute or cuddly.

Treating a Mystery: A Disease Named Pandas May Be Causing Frightening Changes in Children
Brian Stauffer

One night, when she was about nine, Reagan Rhodes insisted to everyone in earshot that she was going to die in her sleep.

Gloria: "There's the monster...and there's my son."

Since she'd expire in a matter of hours, she had to say good-bye to her family. This information was conveyed in piercing, sob-soaked screams that chilled everyone in the house.

The chestnut-haired girl with a mischievous smile had already been anxious before bedtime that night; truth be told, she'd been anxious for years. But this was a new level.

Candi (right) and Reagan Rhodes say antibiotics ended an eight-year ordeal.
Troy Fields
Candi (right) and Reagan Rhodes say antibiotics ended an eight-year ordeal.
Dr. Ian Butler says he's never seen evidence of Pandas.
Courtesy of University of Texas-Houston Health Science Center
Dr. Ian Butler says he's never seen evidence of Pandas.

"I'm going to die in my sleep tonight," the Kingwood third-grader reiterated to her mom, Candi Rhodes, when she rushed to check on her daughter.

Candi called her pediatrician, who told her to take Reagan to the emergency room. Instead, Candi remained with her daughter and tried as best she could to calm her down. The next day, mother and daughter went to a psychiatrist, who prescribed Ativan and Zoloft.

That night, there was a repeat performance. It took about a week before Reagan shook the morbid thoughts.

The reprieve had a limited shelf life. Night terrors and panic attacks continued throughout the school year, along with the attention deficit hyperactivity disorder that had been diagnosed years before. Topping it all off were the tics and tricks of the mind — the throat-clearing, the incessant blinking, the constant feeling of having to use the restroom. Candi worried about how her daughter would be treated at school; she pulled her out and home-schooled her for the fourth grade.

"Where do we go now?" an exasperated Candi asked one of Reagan's pediatricians. The doctor responded with a sort of Hail Mary: She'd had other patients similar to Reagan — mostly children with ADHD and extreme tics. Some therapists called this Sensory Processing Disorder, and there were nonmedical treatments — primarily occupational therapy.

Candi went into full-tilt research mode. The sensory stuff clicked, but from there she wound up on a site that may just as well have been tailor-made for Reagan. Every symptom matched. On these forums, it was as if every kid was Reagan and every scared and helpless mom was Candi. Some of the symptoms even went beyond Reagan's, including anorexia, depression, age regression, violent rage.

At the end, it was like some punch line to a sick joke: These symptoms were supposedly triggered by the common strep infection. The disorder even had a funny name, Pandas: pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infections.

But, she read, the diagnosis was controversial; many doctors didn't believe there was enough evidence to prove its existence. Many more had never heard of it. Parents swapped stories about which doctors were "sympathetic" and which thought they were crazy. Candi found the name of a Houston physician who claimed to have had success treating these kids.

The doctor put Reagan on an antibiotic. In four days, Candi says, the problems were gone. Now 12, Reagan just won a math honors award at school, where she's also a cheerleader. She's also looking forward to trying out for basketball next year.

"I feel horrible to even think that I allowed my child to be put on all those medicines," Candi says. Like many parents around the country, she is a Pandas believer — part of a growing contingent who want to raise awareness and want the diagnosis accepted by mainstream medicine. To most doctors, there is just no evidence that strep, or any other infection, is causing these symptoms. The parents claim, however, that the evidence is right before their eyes: They got their children back.
_____________________

Perhaps the most ridiculously acronymed condition in the history of modern medicine, Pandas was first proposed in 1998 by Susan Swedo, a physician at the National Institute of Mental Health whose research focused on childhood obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Swedo and her colleagues found a subgroup of kids who had experienced a sudden onset of OCD, tics and behavioral changes in the wake of a variety of infections. Swedo focused on those children whose symptoms followed a strep infection. She suspected that, whatever was going on, it seemed to follow the pattern of a movement disorder called Sydenham's chorea.

First described in the 17th century as "Saint Vitus's dance," Sydenham's induces spontaneous and often severe jerking of the limbs, as well as behavioral changes and signs of OCD. It's associated with rheumatic fever, which is triggered by strep and tricks the body's autoimmune system via a process called molecular mimicry, in which antibodies attack the host, and not the intruder. The antibodies wind up attacking the heart and other organs. In Sydenham's chorea, it's believed that antibodies attack the basal ganglia in the brain.

Swedo suggested that something similar was happening with the kids in her study group, only they were presenting with a much broader spectrum of symptoms. However, further studies proved inconclusive: Although there appeared to be a correlation with strep, there was no definitive proof identifying it as the cause. While Swedo had some support from prominent physicians, she also took lumps from others, primarily a well-respected Johns Hopkins pediatric neurologist named Harvey Singer. Singer didn't believe Swedo was completely out to lunch; his writings suggested that the Pandas diagnosis was premature but the general concept was worth exploring. (Today Swedo estimates that as many as 25 percent of kids diagnosed with OCD and tic orders actually have Pandas.)

The two camps had a sit-down in 2010 that fortunately avoided fisticuffs, with Swedo stepping back from the Pandas acronym and its strict adherence to strep, and suggested "PANS," pediatric acute-onset neuropsychiatric disorder. Not to be outdone, Singer opted for "CANS," childhood acute neuropsychiatric symptoms.

By that time, however, Pandas had taken on a life of its own, having been embraced by parents who believed they'd finally found a cause for their kids' sudden bizarre behavior and by some physicians who doled out the diagnosis and treated the kids with antibiotics. In what they considered severe cases, physicians recommended courses of plasma exchange or IVIG — intravenous immunoglobulin.

Some general pediatricians, not knowing what to believe, referred suspected Pandas patients to specialists. The children referred to Ian Butler, a pediatric neurologist and director of the Division of Child and Adolescent Neurology at The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston, may have had problems. But, Butler says, it's never been Pandas.

"I've never been compelled to make that diagnosis," says Butler, who's also an attending physician at Children's Memorial Hermann Hospital and a consulting neurologist at UTMD Anderson Cancer Center, Shriners Hospital for Children in Houston and Lyndon B. Johnson General Hospital. "So I guess I'm behind the times. Or maybe I'm just a crusty old neurologist who should be put out to retirement or something."

Because of the debate over Pandas/PANS and the lack of a consensus 16 years after its official debut in the literature, there is a fair amount of confusing, and sometimes conflicting, information littering support websites for parents. One of the more popular support sites, Pandas Network, suggests that Pandas kids should undergo long-term treatment with antibiotics, and then cites as a reference a statement by the American Academy of Pediatrics that actually says the opposite. Even the National Institute of Mental Health, where Swedo is now the chief of pediatrics and developmental neuroscience, states that "there isn't enough evidence to recommend the long-term use of antibiotics" and "the treatments for children with Pandas are the same as if they had other types of OCD or tic disorders."

The Pandas Network, which estimates that at least 162,000 children in the United States have Pandas, also provides a list of 14 "leading physicians" who treat the disorder, as well as a breakdown of "sympathetic" doctors by state. The list for Texas includes only three doctors.

Despite the formal positions of NIMH and the American Academy of Pediatrics, the doctors on the Pandas Network site claim to have had success with antibiotics. And some parents swear by it.
_____________________

Looking back on it nearly 20 years later, Shreenath Doctor was sure the teenage boy he evaluated in the psych ward had Pandas.

The improbably named Doctor already had a PhD and a DDS under his belt, and now he was going for the MD. Specifically, in head and neck surgery. But he says things changed during his psych rotation when he saw a kid, maybe 15 or 16, undergo shock therapy.

Doctor noticed that the kid's throat was red, something he would never have considered as a possible link to psychiatric symptoms, but which he now believes was a clear indication that an infection was the culprit.

"Sometimes, those faces you can't forget," he says today.

Doctor, a soft-spoken Hempstead native who likes to handcraft über-fancy fountain pens when he's not fielding questions from parents throughout Texas and neighboring states who have nearly run out of hope, believes that science is on his side.

"When people tell me that there's no cause and link between infection and mental illness, I have to sit there and go, 'Are they reading?' Because it's out there," he says. Currently he's a big fan of a 2013 article in the Journal of Neuroinflammation that, in case you let your subscription lapse and missed it, reviews "the link between autoimmunity and neuropsychiatric disorders." The authors state that there's mounting evidence that inflammation may play a larger role in these disorders than thought.

He's also a big fan of sharing these kinds of articles with his patients. He encourages them to comb through the National Library of Medicine online, and he also posts relevant items on a Facebook page set up for patients.

"The more knowledge you give a person, the better fighting chance they have," he says. "It's the only hope of control a parent has."

And that knowledge is out there, says Doctor, who earned his medical degree at The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston and subsequently served as the chief resident in psychiatry at Baylor College of Medicine. You just might have to look beyond the United States to find it. He believes that while researchers here are stuck quibbling over what acronym to use, other countries have progressed. Whether you call it Pandas or PANS, he says, it's just part of what the Europeans call "dopamine mediated post-infectious autoimmune encephalitis"(which admittedly is not very acronym-friendly).

"The thing is, is that Pandas is really just a name," Doctor says. "What really is happening is something called an inflammation, and it's just a process in the brain that we kind of reserve for the rest of the body...it affects every organ in our body. The brain is no exception."

Of course, he points out, not all children are susceptible.

"A lot of this is genetics," he says. "And the genetics basically are the ability to sort of recognize whether part of your body is self or non-self. In Pandas, your immune system doesn't recognize part of your brain as being self."

He's both frustrated by and understanding of mainstream medicine's reluctance to buy the notion that all these problems can be traced back to any number of garden-variety infections, because it's startling to think that a ton of currently overmedicated kids might just need a basic antibiotic.

"It was as hard for me to believe as it was for other people, but you have to keep an open mind," Doctor says.

Doctor is the one who put Reagan Rhodes on antibiotics and, according to Candi, turned her life around. But strangely, he also suggested to Candi that her OCD and anxiety might also be the result of an autoimmune disorder, which bucks the whole "P" part of Pandas but which works if one is eschewing the narrowly defined Pandas label.

Doctor also referred Reagan and Candi to an otolaryngologist to see if they might benefit from tonsillectomies, which Doctor believes can help some of these patients. The Rhodes ladies ultimately did have their tonsils removed, and Candi couldn't be happier.

Yet tonsillectomies are not recommended by the very people who brought us Pandas in the first place: The National Institute of Mental Health states that "there is no evidence that they are helpful."

That would make sense to pediatric neurologist Amber Stocco, who says that when it comes to Pandas, there's no evidence, period.

Stocco, the former medical director of Texas Children's Hospital's Movement Disorders Clinic, says she was curious enough to want to form a team at TCH to investigate further, but got no takers.

Stocco, who now practices in Oklahoma City, says she asked immunologists, rheumatologists and infectious disease folks, but "nobody wanted to touch it." (We reached out to Texas Children's Hospital to find out where their experts stood on Pandas, but unlike the scruffy layabouts at Johns Hopkins Children's Center, Boston Children's Hospital, Stanford Children's Health and the Yale School of Medicine, who have given multiple Pandas-­related interviews for years, TCH experts have "very demanding clinic hours" and were therefore, a spokeswoman told us, unavailable for comment.)

Stocco, who has treated her fair share of Sydenham's chorea cases, specializes in the treatment of children with anti-NMDA receptor encephalitis — an autoimmune disorder that can cause psychiatric symptoms.

"You could easily see how somebody could jump from the diagnosis of Sydenham's, which is a very real diagnosis, to the diagnosis of Pandas," she says. "You take out the chorea, and you've got a lot of similar features."

She explains that the theory behind Pandas makes sense; she's just never seen an autoimmune cause in any of the children referred to her with a Pandas diagnosis.

"I don't think any of us are willing to say it absolutely does not exist," she says. "It's just that most things that we have had experience with end up not being what we would call autoimmune."

She says she understands the appeal of Pandas, though: "Parents want to know 'why.' And that's normal, and I respect that, and that's something I would want to know if I were a parent....They want something they can do something about. And, you know, a lot of behavioral stuff, there's not....But if you can slap somebody on antibiotics and it's going to fix [their behavior]...that's very attractive to anybody."

What's tougher for Stocco to swallow is how some physicians recommend their Pandas patients undergo plasma exchange or IVIG treatment. The former is dangerous, she says, and there's a national shortage of the latter, so it's hard enough for the folks with life-threatening diseases who need IVIG to survive.

If more Pandas patients are being pointed toward such extreme treatments, UT Health Science Center's Butler may know why.

He says that while Pandas researchers have come up short in the evidence department, there's one arena where they've shined: "I think the proponents of Pandas have done a terrific public-relations job," he says. "And it's been, I think, very confusing to parents and physicians."
_____________________

For Gloria, it's the Pandas skeptics who are the confused ones.

A Sugar Land parent of a kid treated by Doctor, Gloria says her younger son's Pandas is real enough that it nearly got him killed.

"Gloria" isn't her real name; she asked for her and her son's privacy to be protected, partly because of things like this: In the summer of 2013, her then-12-year-old son, Matthew, flew into a rage, smashed whatever glass objects he could in the house, picked up one of the shards and threatened his family. His older sister and her baby were visiting, and while Gloria shuttled them outside, Matthew barricaded himself inside.

Up until that point, the rages were bad but not waving-glass-shards-around-a-baby bad, and Gloria and her husband were able to maintain control.

Matthew was diagnosed with bipolar disorder before the age of ten, Gloria says. Before puberty, Gloria says, Matthew's Pandas symptoms included ADHD-like behavior and a sudden decline in math and handwriting abilities. Ultimately, she says, Doctor remedied these with antibiotics.

But when Matthew turned 12, Gloria says, she discovered that "boys, testosterone and Pandas — yucky mess." The kid went full-tilt Jekyll and Hyde. He started having what Gloria calls his "rages" — bouts of animalistic aggression in which Matthew would growl, his eyes would dilate and the skin on his face would go slack.

When this happened, Matthew's parents forced him onto their king-size bed, which served as a kind of open-air jail cell. While Matthew stalked and growled and acted like a beast, his parents patroled the bed's perimeter and tossed rolled-up pairs of socks onto the bed so Matthew would have things to throw that wouldn't cause a concussion. These rages could last as long as two hours. Afterward, Gloria says, Matthew would have no recollection of these episodes. But his parents told him what had happened, and he would refer to that version of Matthew as his monster.

"There's the monster," Gloria says, "...and there's my son."

Gloria and her husband would record the rages, email them to Doctor and promptly delete them.

Doctor explains the rages like this: "Whenever that area of brain gets inflamed, it releases...massive amounts of dopamine, and that's tantamount, basically, to taking hits of crack."

So the monster was raging especially hard that day in 2013, with the glass shard in his hand. Gloria called 911, a decision she now regrets. She was hoping for a couple of police officers and an ambulance. Instead, she says, she got the cavalry.

"The first police officer on the scene threatened to shoot him," she says.

She tried her best to explain Matthew's situation to the officers, which worked well enough that her son was safely taken to Houston Methodist Sugar Land Hospital. His next stop was limbo.

"As soon as everybody heard that it was a medical illness with psychiatric symptoms, West Oaks [psychiatric facility] won't take him, because it's a medical illness," Gloria says. "And the medical hospitals won't take him because it's a psychiatric illness."

Matthew is better today, according to Gloria. She's weaning him off antipsychotics but continuing with antibiotics. Matthew has been an extremely difficult case not just for Gloria but for Doctor as well, a sort of medical moving target requiring trial and error. As Doctor says, "My biggest teachers have been my patients and my mistakes."

A year has passed since that particularly bad rage. That, Gloria says, was the last time anyone has seen the monster.
_____________________

"I can't believe more people just don't educate themselves enough on it," Candi says of Pandas.

Her incredulity even extended, at first, toward immediate family.

"My husband was the worst. 'Candi, you're just trying to find something,'" she says. But that changed after he saw Reagan shed eight years of complications in four days.

"I feel like my daughter has been completely cured," Candi says. Since then, Candi has become a kind of Pandas preacher, spreading the gospel. Converts are hard-won, though. She says that Reagan's pediatrician was amazed by the girl's success with antibiotics, but that the doctor recently told a friend of Candi's — also a patient — that she still wasn't convinced.

Candi feels it's just a matter of more doctors learning about the illness. If a physician doesn't know, how can the patient? People want a doctor to sit them down and explain to them the medical certainty. But Candi says she's got plenty of proof to share with others. And that's Reagan.

"I'm always willing to listen to people who don't believe it," Candi says. "And usually by the time they've heard my story...they're like, 'I don't see how anybody can't believe it.'"

craig.malisow@houstonpress.com

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29 comments
anonymous
anonymous

I can say with certainty that PANDAS exists.  I don't want to give too many details here, but at 5 years old, I was part of the 1996 study on PANDAS at the NIMH.  I was given IVIG on several occasions, and I took an antibiotic three times a day for years.  I used to call it 'bubble gum medicine' because of the artificial flavoring (from when I took it in liquid form before I was comfortable swallowing pills).  I can't express my gratitude enough for the doctors / study- my life was changed when I got strep / PANDAS, but it was changed again through the treatment that NIMH provided at the time.

laylaemoody
laylaemoody

My son began ticking out of the blue on July 4, 2012. He was five. My husband and I were terrified and did not know what was happening. His eyes were dilated, he began having obsessive thoughts and ritual behaviors. Two weeks prior to this, he had had strep throat. It is documented in his medical records. My son was first diagnosed by Dr. K in Chicago. We have actually seen Dr. Stocco and she did not agree that my son had PANDAS, although, we felt she is VERY closed minded. We showed he video of our son ticking uncontrollably and she didn't think anything of it. 

Then, by pure fate and prayers, my husband had been having a bout with depression and all the medications he was put on were causing more problems, I found Dr. Doctor. Originally for my husband, but when I found out that he treated PANDAS kids, I knew that this was divine intervention. My son has been on antibiotics for over a year and is doing exceptionally well. The tics have gone away completely. He does have a flare when he is around someone that has a virus (like his little brother) or if he eats something he is sensitive too. Allergy shots were a particular problem and we stopped them under the advise of Dr. Doctor. PANDAS IS VERY REAL. I know first hand that prior to the strep infection, my son did not have these symptoms. I have video, and his teachers at his school, to prove it. 


Closed minded doctors have the attitude that they know that it cannot be bacterial or viral, yet common knowledge is that viruses and bacteria cause all kinds of illnesses. And that is just common sense. But until you see the transformation for yourself, then you remain skeptical. 


I have the proof. I have the before and the after. Thank God for Dr. Doctor.

Gregory150
Gregory150

The author indicated that Candi found a lot of other families with this condition as part of her research on some forums.  What forums are they referring to?

Ernest
Ernest

All very interesting. My family lore mentions a relative who died (as a child) in the 1920's of St. Vitus Dance.  I eventually figured out that it had something to do with Rheumatic fever and assumed it developed because of lack of antibiotics then to treat the underlying strep. Interesting that it's still out there in some form.

jimyoungsr
jimyoungsr

Wow!!!  I'm so sorry I have ignored Houston Press for so long, believing the MYTH that the Chron was Houston's premiere news source!!!  How WRONG I was!!!!


The obvious research and impeccable writing in this article has shown me where REAL journalism in Houston resides!!!!


Thanks for continuing to honor and responsibly practicing the profession that I once engaged!!

bolger
bolger

Parents: PANDAS is real. I don't have time to tell our entire story on this post but after 4 years of terrible OCD our son was saved after we found the book Saving Sammy. One doctor said we were nuts but a top specialist said we should check our son's strep levels which turned out to be high. After about 2 years of augmentin and a great program at Rogers hospital in Wisconsin our son fully recovered and is now in engineering school. His specialist is now a firm believer. The naysayers border on being evil. Had we listened to them our son would still be sick. Saving Sammy saved our son. We will forever be wary of the medical profession after the arrogance we experienced.

outerspace1226
outerspace1226

PANDAS is an umbrella term for a virus, bacteria, or yeast. No Dr. read anything about it in med school.

LisaM99
LisaM99

Too bad this reporter relied on information from misinformed and out of date physicians who don't treat or diagnosis PANDAS.

1) As recently as April 2014, Dr. Sue Swedo (of the NIH), at the Burlingame, CA PANDAS Symposium, recommended that children with PANDAS follow the AAP recommendation of prophylaxis for Sydenham Chorea. This recommendation is antibiotics until age 21.

2) The comments by Oklahoma City neurologist Amber Stocco frighten me. She appears to not even be aware that there is now a blood test for PANDAS, developed in her own backyard by Dr. Madeleine Cunningham of the University of Oklahoma. "Currently the panel is comprised of five different tests, four of which measure the level of circulating antibodies directed against different neurologic receptors or antigens, and one assay which measures the immune stimulating intensity of the patient’s serum against neuronal cells. The collective results of the panel of 5 tests will provide an assessment as to the anti-neuronal and autoimmune state of the patient at the time of testing." http://www.moleculera.com/

3) To learn more about PANDAS and naysayer Harvey Singer please read Neil Swidey's Boston Globe article on PANDAS: http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2012/10/27/the-pandas-puzzle-can-common-infection-cause-ocd-kids/z87df6Vympu7bvPtapETLJ/story.html 


4) To interview a pediatric neurologist (Ian Butler) who has never made a diagnosis just drives home the point of how out of date most neurologists are with regard to this disorder. I have no doubt he has misdiagnosed many cases of PANDAS as Tourette's.





toryu88
toryu88

As a parent and an adult I have experienced first hand the incompetence of the medical/psychology profession.  In school as a "hard science" student of earth science, we called the psychology study track "science fiction" and rightfully so.  I had a bi polar wife who I sought treatment for under my petroleum industry employer's mental heath program.  We are talking brain chemistry here, not upset stomachs or cramps during one's period.  I sought treatment for her after charting her mood swings, on a weekly basis.  She was a rapid cycler bi polar suffer, and lithium was useless.  The PhD head shrinker accepted my diagnosis and gave her treatment.  I was shocked that he did no baseline chemistry to try and determine what brain chemicals she might have been deficient in, but instead threw drugs at her.  Follow up visits did not include any chemistry but such questions as" Are you still drinking?"  "How do you feel?" and her answers engendered such responses as, "Well take another pill." or "Well take a half  a pill."  And these quacks call this science?


From my own experience, I have been given meds for physical ailments and the results have been, 1) the gout.  2) gall bladder inflammation.  In both cases the quacks assured me that it was not the meds causing the problem, but in both cases I flushed the meds down the toilet and my symptoms disappeared in a matter of days.  Needless to say I did not go back to either of the clowns.  The med that cause the gout was pulled by the FDA a week after I was prescribed it.  Yet the Dr. and the emergency room Dr. swore it could not be the drug.  The prescribing Dr. was a Baylor Orthopedist Dr. on S. 59 in Houston.  His clinic looked like a advertisement for the drug.


They don't call medicine a "practice" for no reason.  You have to know yourself and your body.  Do any of your bother to listen to the host of side effects that come with the drugs advertised on TV?  If you did, the cure sounds worse that the disease, Statins included.  Drugging kids is the height of irresponsible parenting.  I'm 59 and we got by just fine without being sedated for OCD or the host of other excuses the medical profession holds out for parents these days that are too rapped up in themselves to attend to their kids needs.  I was in a military family and it there was an immunization out there, we got it first.  And none of us ended up autistic or retarded because of it.  It sickens me to see how excuse oriented our culture has become, looking for others to blame for the genetic throw of the dice when we conceive and raise kids. 

lisa.bloomquist
lisa.bloomquist

What kind of antibiotics was she given?  It makes a huge difference.  If she was given a fluoroquinolone - cipro/ciprofloxacin, levaquin/levofloxacin, avelox/moxifloxacin - they cause mitochondrial damage which leads to oxidative stress.  Oxidative stress chemicals can have an extremely deleterious effect on all aspects of health - including mental health.  Here is a post about psychiatric reactions brought on by fluoroquinolone antibiotics - http://www.hormonesmatter.com/antibiotics-psychiatric-reactions/

scottsdalebubbe
scottsdalebubbe

It is difficult to understand physicians' reluctance to try antibiotics when many are still prescribing them for viruses which aren't even touched by antibiotics.  It would be a simple and inexpensive enough way to "rule out" bacterial inflammation by trial -- kind of a front line intervention.   The risk is for the child to develop antibiotic resistant bacteria but it is small compared to the potential for relief. That risk is not as great as the disruption of the child's and the family's life by the brain inflammation.


Not all behavioral symptoms have a psychiatric etiology:  older people in hospitals for long periods who do not have previous signs of  Alzheimers or other brain diseases often show signs of "sundowning" and have dreams/hallucinations which they believe are real.  The dreams/hallucinations may, instead, be signs of a reaction to medication, painkillers, or anaesthetics, to continually interrupted sleep, and/or even, a reaction to the psychotropic medication they are being given for the "sundowning".

joeandlynda
joeandlynda

This article helps with awareness but is way behind in the science of this disease....it makes it sound completely speculative, whereas in reality, there is hard science now confirming this.  It's a form of autoimmune encephalitis...it's similar to rheumatoid fever but attacks the brain instead of the heart. There are numerous brilliant neurologists who could have explained it very well in this article.  FYI, other pathogens; bacteria, viruses and parasites, can also cause this autoimmune reaction, it's called PANS.  I believe clarithromycin is one of the antibiotics used, but there are several.  Steroids are also used, as this condition is inflammation in the brain.

whateveryousay
whateveryousay topcommenter

What's the antibiotic prescribed by the doctor who had success treating it?

joeandlynda
joeandlynda

Um. No. It isn't. That 's PANS you're thinking of. And the term doesn't refer to the germs or microbes themselves. It refers to the antibody reaction to the germs.

joeandlynda
joeandlynda

I don't disagree with some of your views that discipline needs to be tightened in many households, and that psychiatry is questionable in many instances, but you are not understanding this disease. The point is this is NOT a psychiatric disorder but is an autoimmune condition in the brains response to bacteria, viruses and parasites. There are psychiatric symptoms, caused by a MEDICAL issue. Are you aware that autoimmune illnesses like MS, diabetes, ect are radically on the rise in this country?? As a matter of FACT, not opinion. Do you not realize that pandas and autism are also autoimmune illnesses?? I understand vyour point about excuses, but it doesn't apply here. This is a real illness. Obviously you don't know the science behind it .....I do.

joeandlynda
joeandlynda

I don't disagree with some of your views that discipline needs to be tightened in many households, and that psychiatry is questionable in many instances, but you are not understanding this disease. The point is this is NOT a psychiatric disorder but is an autoimmune condition in the brains response to bacteria, viruses and parasites. There are psychiatric symptoms, caused by a MEDICAL issue. Are you aware that autoimmune illnesses like MS, diabetes, ect are radically on the rise in this country?? As a matter of FACT, not opinion. Do you not realize that pandas and autism are also autoimmune illnesses?? I understand vyour point about excuses, but it doesn't apply here. This is a real illness. Obviously you don't know the science behind it .....I do.

LisaM99
LisaM99

@lisa.bloomquist  I have never heard of a PANDAS child being treated with fluoroquinolones perhaps because their use is heavily restricted in children. Also, older fluoroquinolones have poor activity against strep.

Augmentin, Azithromycin, Cephalosporins, and sometimes Clindamycin (for difficult cases) are popular antibiotics for PANDAS. If other infections (eg Mycoplasma or Lyme) are identified, antibiotics may be further tailored to treat these infections.

joeandlynda
joeandlynda

Dr Trifeletti, along with other neurologists, often give steroid bursts. They are considered diagnostic. Unless the prevailing view has completely changed recently (and that may be), steroids are used.

toryu88
toryu88

@joeandlynda  My point is that first, diagnosis of psychiatric illnesses is far from exact and that most medical professionals are far from that.  I recall my 10 year old son, who when excited would get into oxygen debt, and gasp.  My not so bright wife at the time, asked doctor about it and the numbskull who had just attended a seminar on Tourette's syndrome offered up an off the cuff diagnosis that it could be that, which not surprisingly sent by overawed wife into a frantic tailspin of over-reaction.  I had to go in the next day and give the doctor a good dressing down over his idiotic behavior.  So my point based on personal experience is that Doctors and mental health professionals are less than expert on what they profess to be.  I am a scientist in my own right, and my daughter a BS/RN has on more than one occasion, said, "Dad you should have been a doctor, you know more about some of this stuff than the Doctors I work for." A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and this sounds like it will result in more frivolous lawsuits and empower a legion of parents claiming that their kids have this or that, based on some marginal cause and effect correlation.  I would say that if Jonas Salk was trying to get FDA approval for the polio vaccine, it would be denied, or he would have been sued into bankruptcy by over zealous attorneys over problems related to the fraction of a percent of the kids who took the vaccine and had problems.  As a result leg braces and iron lungs would still be in common use.

toryu88
toryu88

@joeandlynda  My point is that first, diagnosis of psychiatric illnesses is far from exact and that most medical professionals are far from that.  I recall my 10 year old son, who when excited would get into oxygen debt, and gasp.  My not so bright wife at the time, asked doctor about it and the numbskull who had just attended a seminar on Tourette's syndrome offered up an off the cuff diagnosis that it could be that, which not surprisingly sent by overawed wife into a frantic tailspin of over-reaction.  I had to go in the next day and give the doctor a good dressing down over his idiotic behavior.  So my point based on personal experience is that Doctors and mental health professionals are less than expert on what they profess to be.  I am a scientist in my own right, and my daughter a BS/RN has on more than one occasion, said, "Dad you should have been a doctor, you know more about some of this stuff than the Doctors I work for." A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and this sounds like it will result in more frivolous lawsuits and empower a legion of parents claiming that their kids have this or that, based on some marginal cause and effect correlation.  I would say that if Jonas Salk was trying to get FDA approval for the polio vaccine, it would be denied, or he would have been sued into bankruptcy by over zealous attorneys over problems related to the fraction of a percent of the kids who took the vaccine and had problems.  As a result leg braces and iron lungs would still be in common use. And yes, I lost a father to diabetes, and autoimmune diseases run in my family, most notably, ALS.  While ALS cannot be prevented, diabetes can.  I call it disease of the fork and plate.  Once again, parents should control what their kids put in their mouths.  Sodas?  Growing up, they were a treat, not a replacement for water.

lisa.bloomquist
lisa.bloomquist

@LisaM99 @lisa.bloomquist Thank you, Lisa M!  I am pleased to hear that the children with PANDAS aren't getting "floxed."  Floxed is a short-hand term for fluoroquinolone toxicity syndrome - a syndrome that involves destruction/dysfunction of connective tissues and the nervous systems - central, peripheral and authonomic.  To treat them with FQs could add insult to injury - to put it too lightly.  I'm glad that more benign antibiotics are used to treat the children who are suffering from PANDAS.  

LisaM99
LisaM99

@outerspace1226 Steroids are often used in the treatment of PANDAS. 

Normally steroids are not a "first line treatment". The first line treatment would be antibiotics, sometimes combined with the over the counter NSAID Ibuprofen. However, some PANDAS doctors like to use a (usually short) course of steroids later in the course of treatment to help bring down inflammation and the autoimmune process, and also, as @joeandlynda  mentioned, it can be helpful to help confirm the diagnosis, although that may be unnecessary now that the Cunningham Test is commercially available.

Due to side effects, steroids are not usually used long term in PANDAS children. Here is a link with more information on treatment and steroids are mentioned.  If antibiotics and a course of steroids are doing enough, usually the next step is a course of IVIG, or even plasmapheresis. http://www.ocfoundation.org/PANDAS/




joeandlynda
joeandlynda

Some of the leading neurologists in the pandas field treat with steroid bursts, and in fact, they are considered diagnostic.

joeandlynda
joeandlynda

@toryu88 @joeandlynda 

 "this sounds like it will result in more frivolous lawsuits and empower a legion of parents claiming that their kids have this or that"

Again, you do not understand this disease.  It's a medical condition, not a psychiatric condition, but manifests with psych symptoms.  This has nothing to do with lawsuits, it has to do with children getting diagnosed and treated properly. The only danger of lawsuits in this situation is when they misdiagnose these kids and stick them on psych drugs their whole lives instead of treating the underlying infection.   Try reading the SCIENCE on this disease.  When strep (or lyme, mycoplasma, anaplasma, viruses, parasites) trigger an immune reaction that causes sudden onset (where it didn't exist before) of OCD and other psych symptoms, it suddenly totally changes the behavior of the child.   I agree with your point about Jonas Salk, but you're the one missing the point.  If it's true that vaccinations are one of a host of things weakening the immune systems of our population (along with food supply, chemical exposures and other issues), would you rather just be lied to about that?   I think the American people should know that and be educated on how to improve the situation, not by foregoing all vaccines, but they can be administered in smaller doses, also you don't need all the vaccines they give now, it's way overkill. I'm sure it has nothing to do with $$$$     I prefer the truth, thank you, and people can make their own choices, freely.  We do not need Big Daddy government holding back information for our own good.  Also agree that Docs dont' know everything, far from it.  Most of them stick to the party line.  This disease isn't that recognized yet by Docs (except by neurologists and some educated Docs), it is being recognized in the laboratories by researchers.  (smarter and way more knowledgeable then Docs many times)

mdesselman
mdesselman

@LisaM99 here's a question -- does one need to have a positive strep test to be positive for PANDAS? My son had a sore throat and fatigue, went to pediatrician, negative strep swab (and later negative culture came back from lab) but two days later he had an out-of-nowhere bout of severe anxiety that only ended with throwing up. One round of z-pack (which I got from my doctor, suspecting PANDAS) didn't seem to do much. He developed tics and has had these attacks on and off. Docs think just panic disorder; I think something triggered this. But I don't want to be ridiculous about it -- if it's just that he has anxiety/panic, then I can deal with that and want him to get help. But if there is a viral or bacterial thing going on -- I want to treat that, not just the panic symptoms.


He responds very well to acupuncture for calming CBT has helped also. Has anyone found that Chinese medicine can be effective in treating PANDAS/PANS?

LisaM99
LisaM99

@mdesselman  not all children with PANDAS will have a positive strep swab or other clear cut evidence of a strep infection (eg 2 fold rise in strep titers). Also, consider doing throat cultures on family members to rule out a strep carrier in the household.

Sometimes strep will hide out in other locations (sinuses, skin). Other times another infection is the trigger (mycoplasma, Lyme, viruses). If a specific infection isn't identified but a child has acute onset anxiety/OCD, this is referred to as PANS. Note: one speaker at the CA PANDAS symposium (April 2014) said that 30% of her cases turn out to be CDC positive for Lyme.

Also, 5 days of antibiotics may not do much. At the recent PANDAS symposium in CA, the Stanford rheumatologist said that even simple cases can take 2-3 mo. to get back to baseline. She also said that only 14% of her cases meet the very strict research criteria of PANDAS (which includes a clearly identified strep infection, text book presentation). The fact that your child's anxiety spiked in correlation with an obvious illness is very suspect.

Depending on the severity of your son's anxiety and how he is doing currently, you may want to direct yourself to http://pandasnetwork.org/resources/providers/provider-list/  This article may also be helpful http://www.ocfoundation.org/PANDAS/ to you.

 
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